Curse

Dark Phantasm · May 25, 2005, 03:33 AM // 03:33

The issue here is there are actually two different games in one. we have PvE as one and PvP as the other. Why dont they raise the cap for the PvE enviroment so you can max you characters attributes and use all possible skills for character classes. Because at the end of the day you only ever have 8 skills in your tray and 1 elite. so you have no advantage of having collected all your skills. Then for PvP you should just automatically adjust the player for the PvP enviroment. So say your level 35 or whatever? you walk through to a PvP arena automatically your characters get cut back to the level 20 so that the PvP side remains balanced. For me exploring the worlds, following the story and killing the creatures at the moment is more appealing (and say more relaxing) than the PvP world. However with the cap in place in the PvE enviroment, killing creatures of level 27 and up is becoming near impossible and without rewards i.e attribute points, The mission are starting to feel pointless. I mean why go kill the Red Dragon as a bonus in a mission if all you get is 1000 exp. how do we benefit from the exp it means nothing after ascending. Also the skill points are pointless since you may aswell just buy the skills that correspond to the skill catagories you are working on as you wont be getting any more attribute points to put on any other skill category. So seperate the two and keep both sides happy. I dont care if we are caped for PvP as yes it keeps the game play balanced. but dont cripple the PvE for it.

Khyron the Dark · May 25, 2005, 04:12 AM // 04:12

IMHO, the lvl cap should be raised a lil with each expansion, maybe 5-10 lvl s for each.... About PvP (not PvP, so I might make no sense here), it could be set to "pair" up close lvl players in the Arena (e.g. 25 lvl vs 30??).... As it is right now with seperate group worlds, there is no fear of being ambushed by lowley PK's waiting outside the gate, so raising the lvl cap wouldn't affect that.... Am I making any sense??

BTW- I believe that someone (not naming names) said (not word for word here).... If you really feel an accomplishment for getting to level 5025391237849, then congradulations, you're stupid. Go play everquest. I personally like seeing my lvl higher than some and lower than others.... what happens when everyone get to lvl 20 and it's all "balanced"??

PS- I didn't get to vote on that poll....

Edit: I think that lvl # is a bit xtreme and kinda silly....

Deadroot · May 25, 2005, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

what happens when everyone get to lvl 20 and it's all "balanced"??

Then you can have a competitive game based on player skill more than uber gear and higher levels. A game that can offer many PvE areas specially designed for full groups of level 20 players in order to offer them a good challange when they have finished the leveling portion of the game. A game where PvP never boils down to who has the most uber char. You can have a game that the devs have set out to make.

Why don't the devs want to raise the level cap with the expansions? They want to preserve the balance and avoid level grinding (which will happen if you keep bumping the level cap). PvP is most fun when everyone is at the max level, so bumping the cap for an expansion would be pointless since most people won't really see good PvP until they hit the cap again. If you maintain the cap at 20, then the new PvE stuff can all be tailored for level 20 characters, assuring a fun challenge for all the PvE groups. If you go into a PvE area at a higher level than the area was made for, it becomes more of a hack & slash game. But if everything is "balanced," you get solid strategy needed for all the new areas.

This is a game about teamwork and strategy, not items and endless leveling. I don't understand why people play this game if they don't like that concept. If you don't like how it works, then clearly this isn't the game for you. I know its not a common concept for a game, but try it out for a while and see just how effective it can be. If it doesn't catch your fancy, then feel free to play one of the many MMOGs that offer loads of leveling and uber gear

Racthoh · May 25, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Hearing that the limit was almost made me return the game. But I figured that it would be evenly spread out over the course of the game and prehaps I might beat the game before I even reach 20. But, when I got to post-searing and looked at the size of the world map, I cried. This much to explore and I'm only going to be level 20? I'm already level 15, and in the mountains. Also, I'm going to be quite content just leveling from Pine Souls and Ice Imps(or is it frost) till I'm 20 since their levels are 24 (odd how the monsters go a higher level than you I must say...). And, from what I can tell, I'm getting great items as well. Because really, if the level limit is going to be so low, why even bother having levels to begin with? If they're going to divide the game into PvE and PvP, why not divide it even furthur allowing some people to play relying - entirely on skill, somewhat skill and equipment, or entirely massively leveling and equipment.

What is the point? To get more skill points? Who cares, I'd say more than half the skills I have are crap or there are better versions of them. Or I can buy them to build a PvP character but I'm never going to do that. At least PvP has a point in this game since you get fame and rank as opposed to Diablo II.

Also, how dumb can the leveling be. 20 HP per level. So a fighter that tones his body for physical endurace can take as much a spindly mage? Why is it that the elementalist has an ability to raise their energy, but a fighter doesn't have one to raise their HP? How is that balanced? Naturally the fighter is going to have great armour, but every RPG is like that.

How many other RPGs are there where you reach the max level well before the end of the game? Compared to a popular series such as Final Fantasy. Characters would only have to be about level 50 to beat the game, but you could still level to 99. Diablo II, beat hell setting at about 80, then the tiring ordeal of reaching 99.

How are people to supposed to challenge themselves with this game? I've read people's accomplishments about other games where they try to beat the game in under a certain about of time, or at a really low level. The only challenge this game has is beating it. It doesn't have the same appeal to get the best equipment like in Diablo II since you craft every piece of armour aside from what goes in your character's hands.

I don't understand what you're saying about not having massive levels so PvP is balanced. When I go to the arenas, you're divided up evening based on the levels of the entries (as far as I can tell). And there are level limits are whether or not you can enter the arena. When you walk outside a town, you have you're own world. Someone can't just barge in 10 levels higher and kill you.

It is nice to play a game that actually requires some skill. Not much of it is based on equipment though sadly. A lot of good 20% enchanced damage does when the max damage is at most 30ish. So an extra 6 points on a monster who has hundreds? Obviously though, if I can slay level 24 monsters with the same weapon I was using to slay level 8 monsters... I'd say I've probably reached my skill peak. I don't need any more levels, any new equipment. I might as well stop. I've reached my pinacle.

I think they should improve the AI on hencemen. At least on the healer, because she is such a dumbass. All she ever does is run into combat and dies, and rarely heals the character than actually needs it. I know she has to be somewhat close to heal, but after she does the healing... make her run back and take advantage of the range of her weapon. Make the AI have some 'skill' if that is what this game is all about...

That's my two cents.

shinseikaze · May 25, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

the lvl cap is irrelevant now.............but more importantly new content, classes, skills, mounts, customisation for weapons, armour etc has to be implemented in the near future.........

Zolen · May 25, 2005, 07:24 AM // 07:24

1) its closed
2) people who voted b4 they reached the cap cannot change their mind (can only vote once)
3) its closed -- in a moths time, I predict the figures to be quite overwhelming in favor of changing cap-- gives the slower people time to realize the cap limitations, and that pvp is cool, but not as cool as the pve (in my opinion-- of course)

... any others ?

BashBashem · May 25, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

I think the level cap is at 20 because the budget on this game was limited not because they thought it was the best thing for the game ... whats more likely . 1. They made the level cap 20 for our benefit . 2. They made the level cap 20 because they didnt want to spend time making more content for levels up to 40 and prefered to sell the game now so they could make their $$$

Loviatar · May 25, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by BashBashem

I think the level cap is at 20 because the budget on this game was limited not because they thought it was the best thing for the game ... whats more likely . 1. They made the level cap 20 for our benefit . 2. They made the level cap 20 because they didnt want to spend time making more content for levels up to 40 and prefered to sell the game now so they could make their $$$

considering they are making a ton of new level 20 content and
since they will be streaming us 2 big new level 20 areas soon i think it is number 1 for our benefit

MonkeyWrench4000 · May 26, 2005, 12:50 AM // 00:50

They didnt want there money now, so they capped it at 20. Its more likely they capped it to 20 so they could make there money LATER with more expansions. If you could level to say, 50 now, and 50 by the time you get through the second expansion, it would seem overblown to be leveling into the hundreds. Right? I dunno. Lets not over anaylze!

Loviatar · May 26, 2005, 12:59 AM // 00:59

[QUOTE=MonkeyWrench4000]They didnt want there money now, so they capped it at 20. Its more likely they capped it to 20 so they could make there money LATER with more expansions. QUOTE]

since they can SAVE money by keeping the cap at 20 and make new content for everybody instead of splitting their efforts on multiple content levels it seems unlikely that any raising of levels will come anytime soon

maybe the 3rd or 4th chapter?

Jaroh Magus · May 26, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

One question...
You paid how much to get this game? $40? And it's a complete game, with story and levels and nifty things thrown in from start to finish. To beat it, it takes a decent amount of time. How much did it cost for say, KotOR? About $50? And it takes a decent amount of time to finish that game as well, and you reach your peak before the end of the game (barring exploits). It too is filled with stuff to enjoy from start to finish. Now, KotOR is done and finished once you beat the game. Nothing left to do but go back and play it again with a different character. It doesn't cost you anymore, but you are getting the same old story from start to finish. No new content, no new anything. Plus it's single player. Guild Wars is the same idea, except that they are introducing new content via streaming patches for free, and it's multiplayer, meaning you could play the game with friends. As well, it has Multiplayer options thrown in for free. Hmmmm...already it's beating the other game...

Guild Wars is not a MMO. It's an action RPG that happens to be playable multiplayer, like Diablo 2. It should not be compared with an MMO at all. People are wanting things in it that they should be going to MMOs for. Diablo 2 came out with an Expansion and a Patch, and it did not increase the level cap at all. They introduced harder areas and more stuff. You only payed once for that game (barring expansions), just like this one. You are getting your $40 dollars worth with Guild Wars. They are just throwing in more stuff for free on top of it, by constantly updating the world. Imagine if the makers of KotOR had produced patches and such that added new worlds, story and characters for free. It would be much like this game.

I like the game as it is. I am enjoying the story a lot. I know that I don't care for PvP that much. I find first person shooters to be incredibly boring. Guild Wars has a first person shooter option open to me if I decide to try it out. It's much like Nox was in that way, except that there's a persistant world and supported servers for it. Maybe I will enjoy it, maybe I won't. I'll find out when I get there. Until then I will enjoy the game that I paid for, and since I'm not giving more money to them every month, I don't expect anything back from them. They've already given me what I want already...

As far as what I hope to see in future chapters:

I want to see much more armor. I want huge options of armor to craft, and choose from to be able to choose a "look" that suits my character. I don't really care if there are 30 breastplates with identical or nearly identical stats, as long as they look different for me to use.

I want to see many more weapons in the same way. A big thing that I haven't found yet (I'm level 15 now...) is Two Handed Swords nor Dual Wielding. Are they in the game? If not, I'd like to see them, as my Warrior/Necro is dying to wield a big freaking sword, as well as other things like Scythes, one handed clubs, more shield styles, everything...like I said, if there are 30 different kinds of one handed swords and the only difference is in looks, I'd be more than happy...

I would like to see Dye a little easier to obtain, but that's just me...

I would like to see more customizability to the weapons and armor in terms of adding runes to them. Maybe this is just leftover from Diablo 2, but I would like to see funky weapons with multiple stats on them. As far as I can tell, the adds don't really add a lot to you damage output, but just having them makes people happy. The Mighty Warrior's Great Axe of Dismemberment is cool and all, but who wouldn't want a customized sword called The Impaler which maybe had something cool. Or even better, allow us to rename the weapons we do have to be truly personalized, much like Diablo 2 did (although with a bit more freedom I think).

I'd definately like to see more classes to choose from, and hopefully the option to nix your old profession for a new one with the expansion, so you can keep your old character, just with a new job.

I would like to see more stat points I think, to plug into abilities, but that's just for more customizability I think. Maybe a way to plug points into one skill, rather than a line of skills, so if you liked one really cool ability in another line you could have that in addition to the 2 or 3 you are already specializing in. This would open up new character archtypes, and if you limit it to one spell, I don't think it would be too overpowering.

More races is fine, as long as they don't forget about us humans and just add new funky stuff for them. I know I primarily play a human in every game so far, and by far enjoy that more than a night elf or whatever the flavour of the week is. Some people like those other races to play as, and I can see where adding them is nice, I just don't want to be a lowly forgotten about human in the wake of all that is new and different...

I definately want to see more face options/hairstyles for creating characters, with maybe tattoo options and other additions. It pains me to say it, but Wrestling games on the PS2 have more character creation options than almost every RPG out there, and that is something I'd like to see changed. City of heroes was nice for it as well, but still limited in scope. Maybe more game developers should play some Smackdown (I can't believe I'm recommending wrestling...

).

I would like to see many huge new areas, but that goes without saying, as well as cool new and different monsters, but I'm pretty sure that's a given.

One thing I would like to see changed is the HP/MP system for classes. I don't think Mages should be the same as a Warrior and vice versa, either in starting mana, nor gaining mana. It should be some sort of algorythm based on your starting/secondary proffessions as to what you start with gain per level. It seems to opperate nicely so far, but time will tell if it is truely balanced with just armor...

I would like to see more vendors, but that would come with more stuff for sale. More options for capes/guilds would be nice (like maybe a movable crest, so you could have it at the top of the cape or a bit smaller or wherever, etc. to make it a bit more customizable). Or even a hooded robe would be cool.

I think my favorite class that I wish would get made is a Blademaster-type class that is low on the armor, but favors speed and quickness for his attacks. Jedi-type I was thinking (just without the lightsaber...although that would be cool...heh).

I guess we'll see what kind of things that they have in store for us...

Whew...well I guess I'm done. Thanks for reading a new person's post and lemme know what you guys think.

shinseikaze · May 26, 2005, 08:08 AM // 08:08

great ideas..........i like that blademaster type class..........^_^........reminds me of the pikeman in PT

Mythos · May 26, 2005, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Hello form a fresh new member. Just got the game yesterday but haven't got the time to play a lot yet.
I have to say that GW is exactly what I wanted for an online game. I really love the whole concept and the way it is implemented.
I agree in everything Jaroh said, especially for the desired features. If just few of them are going to be adopted, the game will gain more glory.
For now, I just want to enjoy it upto L20

Cheers!

*** Mythos Of Thrace ***

Jaroh Magus · May 27, 2005, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinseikaze

great ideas..........i like that blademaster type class..........^_^........reminds me of the pikeman in PT

Thanks! It's the kind of class that I want to play, and I don't know of any game that lets me really. (Think Mitsurugi from Soul Calibur 2, or Samurai Jack, or a Jedi - loosly. That's what I want to play). The idea to wield 2 weapons or to dual wield a big sword is also appealing.

It's the options that are available to players to customize themselves that will make this game big though. PVP is nice and all, but some (like myself) grow bored with that unchanging environment pretty quickly. That's why I want to see so much in the way of weapons/armor to let you change your appearance without sacrificing some in the way of damage potential/protection if you like one set's look over another.

Has anyone ever played a game called Monster Hunter for the PS2? This game is much like that one, except bigger. Although I do like the options for weapons in that game, and would like to see some of that incorporated here...

grimmig · May 27, 2005, 02:54 PM // 14:54

I think that the cap at 20 should be removed, preferibly soon. Not unlimited but to raise it to say 30 or 40. This doesn't necessarely have to apply to PVP which I don't care as much about as RP. Reason for this: there are several places where you encounter 20+ monsters (N/E of Shiverpeak: 24 level monsters, Underworld Minions start at lvl 29...). Now it's all fun when you say "I can enjoy playing at level 20 and doing the other missions I already did a week ago" but others might not think likewise. Especially if you want to advance in the story, find Elite Skills etc. So far, the issue that mostly came up was "a level 15 shouldn't pvp against a lvl 20+" well, first of all there is a cap on ALL pvp arenas. Second, the PVP mode itself has all characters playing at level 20. Therefore, that argument has very limited validity in my opinion. I just want to be able to level my character further and not be restricted as much as I am now since it's not always possible to party with people you know and we all know the NPC party members are about as useful as a waterproof teabag later on in the game. Plus, too often did I find that pairing up with other people in a party can be quite frustrating so I prefer to level on my own or with friends but if you're up against characters much higher than yourself, it's quite harsh to think you should only be limited to lvl 20 and keep respawning until you slowly advance through the map. Just my 2 cents.

DranoK · May 27, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

The level 20 cap is good. I feel a bit strange by saying that--in the past I was a strong proponent for having many levels. I, too, felt that a lvl 20 cap was ... pointless. I played World of Warcraft to 60 and stopped just a short week later--there didn't seem to be any point. I don't consider myself a fanboi. In fact, up until the day I bought Guild Wars I was certain the game was a total flop. A mistake. A pointless waste of time that would rival a water-proof teabag in usefullness. Then a Penny Arcade strip convinced me to try it =)

What can I say? The gameplay won me over. I hate the term but Guild Wars really is a paradigm shift away from what we consider to be the elements of an RPG.

First, what defines an RPG? Let's take its definition: Role-Playing Game. We assume the role of a character. We customize that character in terms of abilities. We choose our skills, raise our abilities, seek out armor and equipment. For what purpose? To make our characters stronger; better.

But that's why the term "leveling treadmill" was coined, ne? Because at level 10 you're fighting Large Rats with an armor of 50 with your +1 sword. At level 60 you're fighting Giant Rats with an armor of 300 with your +6 sword. Before you cast Fire Nova I; now you cast Fire Nova IV, because Fire Nova IV does 10 times as much damage as Fire Nova I (never mind that the mobs have 10 times as many HP).

At best the gameplay at lvl 60 is exactly the same as the gameplay at level 10. At its worst the gameplay is more advanced and interesting at lvl 60 -- that means everyone suffers from lvl 1 to lvl 60 before they can experience the full aspects of the game.

And what happens at level 60? Your character is as powerful as it can be. You've reached the limit. Sooo.... You either raise the limit so your characters can continue to advance or you spend all your time in raids trying to get the next drop of uber armor that gives you one more HP than your old one did.

A very good argument could be made that the only purpose of gaining increasingly higher levels is so you can kill lower-level mobs (and players) with spells and weapons geared for higher-level content and laugh at how quickly and effortlessly you can slay.

Like many other posters in this thread I'll ask: What benefit does having a higher level cap have? I guess to answer this question we need to examine our motivations. Let's look at our possible options:

To become more poweful.
I think this is a limited way of thinking--it's based entirely on math and statistics. Because if you become 5 times more powerful, the mobs you fight must also become 5 times more powerful, as must your PvP opponents. What's the point? It's a net gain of 0. You gain access to new abilities and spells that are just upgrades of your old ones. Oooh, this new sunder armor removes 20 points of armor instead of 10! (Never mind that mobs have 10 more armor). Becoming more powerful should be about refinement, strategy and tactics, imho.

To gain access to new skills and abilities (not just upgrades).
Say what? Why should a player need to be level 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 before he can experience the full spectrum of the game? It's like going to see a movie, but waiting in line for three months being told about how great the movie is while watching puppet show imitations of it. The strategy and tactics (aka, the gameplay) should be the same at any level.

To become more powerful than the mobs so I can solo what once took a large group to do.
This is true but it seems pointless. The game shouldn't be about comparing your statistics to the mobs. Yeah, if you were level 40 you could kill the lvl 29s with ease. But, again, this would have to be balanced. Which means that the drops you get from the lvl 29 would no longer be interesting to a level 40. Ooops, now you gotta kill a lvl 49 to get what you want. The endless cycle continues...

Because why would I want to play after I reach the cap?
At last we come to the reason most people are opposed to the level cap, and why I think Guild Wars is truly different from the other (MMO)RPG games out there. And this is a valid reason, I think; people don't want to ever actually reach their carrot-on-a-stick.

I think this fear must be eradicated from our mindsets for RPGs to evolve. And in this game, at least, I don't think it's a valid fear.

Let's look at the reasons so many people like Guild Wars:

The Story
OK; this isn't me. I actually can't stand the voice acting and find the plot cliche at best. Actually, I find it quite annoying and disgusting. But that's me. Assuming you like the story, there's no reason a level cap would hinder your interest in it.

The Strategy
You amass skills and unlock items to outfit your character and create your "deck". You try out different strategies, combine your resources in different ways and create one or more templates that work for you. No two necromancers are exactly the same; you can go for more standard builds or try something totally out there. Raising the level cap does nothing to promote strategy, and could only possibly hurt it by opening up new strategic options at higher levels (and thereby stating that you must be at the level cap to experience the full spectrum of strategy).

The Tactics
This is what I love about the combat. Strategy is important and fun, but the excersizing your strategy is complicated. Again, raising the level cap does nothing to help this, and could only possibly hurt it by opening up new tactical options at higher levels (and thereby stating that you must be at the level cap to experience the full spectrum of tactical combat).

The Equipment
I hate this concept too--endless questing, farming or raiding for equipment just so you can be viable in PvP or harder PvE areas seems pointless to me. But, assuming this is something you wanted, how would it be hampered by a level limit?

The Time!
Maybe this is it. Maybe it's the way people view things. Maybe people are comforted by thinking, "It will take me a year to reach the max level; ergo this game will last me a year." Again, I liken it to standing in line for a year. I don't like to take this attitude, but if your sole purpose in playing a game like this is to reach the max level (which you'll do in very little time in Guild Wars) then it's probably not the game for you. But I could write you a quick program that gives you experience every time you click your mouse, if you like. It has a level limit of 6000. It takes 26 years to reach that cap ^^

OK, enough of my ranting. Again, in every way that I can see the level 20 cap is a very good thing.

I (and several others) have described several advantages for having the level cap here.

What, if any, are the non-treadmill zero net gain advantages of setting the level limit higher?

Ashock · May 27, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Ok, this is for PvE strictly.... Get 2 characters to Ascention (this should take around a month give or take a bit). Then tell us if the lvl cap is pointless. The game is wonderful, up until you Ascend. It is then, when you can pretty much no longer develop your character (more or less), then it becomes pointless. Well, it is not the char lvl that matters, really. It is the fact that you can longer get any more attributes that matters, after the 2 large attribute quests. People here site the fact that without further lvl-ups you get to fight monsters that are much higher than you are and that is a problem. That is NOT the problem. The problem is that if you are at clvl 20, your character will be virtually the same a month from now (with possibly some minor gear changes) as it is now! Gimme further character development, and things are much improved. Without it, after a while it's a waste of time, at least for PvE and I suspect for PvP it will be similar eventually. Great content without variety is still stale content.

Now, this does not mean that this game is a waste of money and time. No, I feel it is $50 reasonably well spent and you should have a good time for around a month or so. However, it could have been so much more, if only they concentrated on fixing the issues of this genre that are broken (which they accomplished to a large extent), and not those that are perfectly fine, and broke those. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! The character development in Action RPG's of this type was and is not broken. That is why people played Diablo 1 and 2 for years and years. Considering the backround of the development team, they should have known that.

-A

ps. Playing Diablo 1 and 2 for a total of around 6-7 years. Total cost ~ $120. That is money well spent!

DranoK · May 28, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

The problem is that if you are at clvl 20, your character will be virtually the same a month from now (with possibly some minor gear changes) as it is now! Gimme further character development, and things are much improved. Without it, after a while it's a waste of time, at least for PvE and I suspect for PvP it will be similar eventually. Great content without variety is still stale content.

Right, that's how other games made it work. I don't buy it. If this were true I would see no point in playing RPGs at all--it's all about your numerical values vs. the enemies' numerical values.

To me, an RPG is a game in which you customize your character, stats, etc, then compete with strategy and tactics. Your character is in the same armor, and maybe the same attribute points and skills in a month as he is now, but hopefully your tactics and strategy have improved. Maybe you even play around with different skill decks or other classes if you're so inclined.

In the future, should new skills be added, you can further hone and re-tune your deck. New items / etc to unlock.

I guess that's what I'm talking about in a shift of concept. Maybe there's another dimension of RPGs that doesn't involve simply making your character jump through numerical hoops.

The games I've played the longest, games like Starcraft, RTCW (an FPS), etc have all had a strong component of skill. I love the concept of RPGs--of creating precisely the character you want--but can't stand so many RPGs and MMORPGs because they serve to be nothing more than an exercize in statistics.

And when I think about it, the pen-and-paper RPG games I played as a kid didn't have this obsession with levels. Take AD&D, Call of Cthulhu (you're lucky to even survive a day in that one), etc, and your level was nearly always in the single digits.

Will Guild Wars hold my interest longer than other RPGs? Who knows. I think so? I hope so. Right now I desperately want to play RPGs, but just find them all so terribly boring. Just my variables competing against your variables.

It's my belief that holding the player cap at 20 will allow the developers to find better ways to make the game about skill instead of numbers. Here's hoping.

grimmig · May 28, 2005, 03:45 AM // 03:45

All the comments being said and done, if you think about it, any game involves skill. And skill doesn't just drop from the sky right into your lap. You get it from playing the game (quite often for a very long time). Keeping a cap at level 20 seems like a good idea in the sense that a certain equilibrium is maintained. However, why is it such a harsh concept that some people aim to achieve higher levels? The same goes for other games. Some people may play starcraft (as an example) for only a few hours per week and become quite good at it over time. Others aim to play it in leagues say and therefore play it for hours and hours every single day. Why should Guildwars be so different?
A cap is a reasonable solution for competition between players but since this has already been applied to the PVP side, why should it be the same case for the RP side? Oh and just because a character is level 50 instead of level 5 and the monster he's fighting is level 55 instead of level 6 doesn't mean that it's still exactly the same battle. To say that would be quite foolish since status points DO make a difference on a long run.
The other main point apart from the balance between players that everybody has been ranting and raving about is the items etc that will further improve your character in the future. Well, these items will most likely only be available by purchasing the updates. So for everybody who's been saying 50$ is a good investment for the game that is so well balanced, you should know that the Add-ons that are coming out won't open up any major extra content for you. Any new areas that might come out with the content will be available for you as well but as regards to items etc, I think it is fair to assume that they will be limited to those willing to pay. And although it has been said that any Add-ons won't create a visible difference between Add-on players and the remaining players, it would be interesting to know what else the add-on would offer if not something that would clearly define it from the version we're playing with now. Or why would anybody spend money on something other than getting something new that further changes the gameplay or adds new things to it (hence add-on).

Jaroh Magus · May 28, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

The one thing that I can say towards getting more powerful over time is that the new funky skills/spells that you pick up over that amount of time always look far more interesting and worth it to watch. Take Final Fantasy for example and say Fire 1. Then look at Fire 3. Then look at Nuke. Which is more visually appealling? As well, as your character advances and learns these various levels of spells, you can see your character advancing through the visuals. You see yourself gaining more power that way. With a level 20 cap, you don't see that. You quickly advance to "max power" without any real visual representation of that. Your skills are almost exactly the same as when you started. As well, if they were to give you a new spell every couple of levels that was an advance on the old one, at the rate you advance levels, you don't really notice the change at all. You never spent time with each of the various Fireball spells to notice the massive change to a new one. That is the only downside I can see with a level 20 cap. Otherwise, I like it.

The strategy aspect aside, yes I can see that fighting a level 5 mob is strategically the same as fighting a level 40 mob, however, the visual representations are not there. That level 5 character that you've been fighting for the past 5 months isn't all of a sudden going to start tossing nukes about.

The one thing I can say that hurts this game is the very linear monsters. They are always in exactly the same places every level, so fighting each stage is exactly the same. Having randomly spawning monsters throughout the level as well as far larger paths for the monsters to wander. More intelligence is always good as well, having people run back to warn others of your presence and such, to prepare for your arrival, so that you have to go and take the scout out before that happens...things I'd like to see within the missions themselves.

The biggest thing lacking from this game is the expansive visuals from the characters themselves, friendly and otherwise. There are amazingly gorgeous backgrounds and levels, but the characters themselves are kind of...blah in their effects. Maybe that will be updated in a future patch; I do really hope so. I want my fireball to look like a fireball. I want my Pheonix spell look like a massive pheonix. I want my Warrior's special abilities look like he's doing something crippling. Visually is how this game needs to and can improve. It already has the balance that other games strive for. Everything they add now can be just gravy to make it truly amazing.